Can One Lose Salvation? An Exchange Using the King James Version, Part I

Can One Lose Salvation? An Exchange
Using the King James Version, Part 1

By Matt1618

This is response to a King James only advocate, who is a Landmark Baptist, who believes in faith alone, and that one can not lose one’s salvation. His email to me is in brown says why he believes in faith alone and how one can not lose his salvation. My response follows.

I am bewildered at your warped theology in claiming that you have even began to rightly divide the Word of Truth. I was once a fallen from gracer, but it was a grand and glorious day in my life when I realized that the Lord Jesus Christ done it all for me. I realize that I had to accept his sacrifice but after that no matter what you claim, you would have to teach that you are earning your way to heaven somehow. What a criminal doctrine and a slap in the face to our precious Lord to insist that you have something to do with your salvation. Like endurance, works, overcoming, and so on. My soul friend, why did God send his only begotten Son to die if we could make it to heaven on our own? Try asking the people who built the tower of Babel about that one! You try to climb up some other way you mark it down you will be considered a thief and a robber! Christ paid it all what are you going to add to that. I believe in holy living. But I try to live holy to honor him and because I want to be pleasing to my Heavenly Father not to be saved. If you are not careful this self righteous attitude will eat you alive, ask Cain. "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." I guess when we get to Heaven one day after while, people will be standing around everywhere patting themselves on the back saying, "I endured to the end (which by the way in it's context has to do with the saving of the flesh in the tribulation period), I held out, I done it, I have enough good works, I hope? God help us to see how absurd and how wicked that we really are and can be in our fleshly depravity! The thought of foolishness is sin. Therefore him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not is sin. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All our righteousness is as filthy rags. If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand. For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. I would rather lean to the side of teaching that a righteous man or woman does not want to regularly commit sin because of the new nature that God has imputed unto them more than I had this sorry doctrine of "Well I am saved now and it doesn't matter what I do," but lest I play the role of a fool I nor yourselves can never say that you are without sin! Proof. What causes death? Sin of course and I know you know that. Do you think that you will die? If you ever get rid of sin then you shouldn't die! You will out live old Methuselah here on earth! Thank God for the sacrificial death of the Lamb of God that bore mine and your sins and suffered the penalty of sin upon himself, thus freeing everyone from condemnation that calls upon his name for salvation!! Thank God it's eternal life not 10, 20, 5 or maybe 2 years of life, but rather Jesus, the one who cannot lie, said ETERNAL LIFE for all who will come unto him. I would make sure dear friend that I was drawn of the Spirit and repented of my sins if I were you.
No. It is not a warped theology, it is a plain reading of Scripture. Every book in the New Testament talks of that possibility of losing salvation except for maybe Philemon. You want to ignore verses that is your perogative.

First off, Why did Jesus come? What was his purpose? He explains it in Titus 2:11-14:

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Notice, he gives the reason for our salvation to live righteously. That is for our salvation. His purpose is not to just pretend that we are innocent even though we sin all the time and can't help ourselves, but according to Paul redeem us and purify for himself people who are zealous for good deeds, and this is in the context of salvation. He did his part, now it is the part of Christians to live it out. Now, you teach a doctrine of demons if you think that sins can not separate one from God. BTW, just because it is a gift given from the Father, it does not mean it is 'earning' salvation.

You say it is a slap in Jesus’ face if we must obey to keep the commandments. Well, Jesus himself said the following:

Mt. 19:16-17 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev. 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

One can enter in the gates, and one has a right, only if one keeps the commandments. Now, I take Jesus at his word. Do you?

Paul says in Rom. 8:17, after declaring one who is in Christ a son, he says:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Notice it is that we are heirs of God (inherit salvation) provided we suffer with him. I will take Paul's words over your words.

Christian works are not filthy rags. Taking a verse out of context in Isaiah, does not apply to Christians. Paul writes in Romans that in justification one is made righteous (see Rom. 5:17-19) by God. Are you saying that God makes filthy rags? In fact John notes, 1 Jn. 1:7-9

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. God did not make filthy rags, but through his grace, he truly cleanses us from righteousness on an ongoing bases. He also makes it mandatory that we keep the commandments for eternal life, 1 Jn. 2:3-5
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
You say you have to do nothing, the Bible says that if you don't keep the commandments, you are a liar. I will take Scripture over your words

Heb. 10:26-29

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Do I believe what that says or what you say?

2 Pet. 2:20-21

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Do I believe what that says or what you say?

I believe it is a warped theology that can ignore the many Scriptures that are given. Look at what Paul says 1 Cor. 6:9-18:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. 15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
You see that you are deceived, if you think that that there are no sins that can separate one from Christ. It is not I who says it, but Paul himself. He says that those sins in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, will separate one from Christ. Apparently there were some around, who thought that if they did these sins, they would not be cut off from Christ. Now, he says that in Christ, one is washed, sanctified and justified. Thus justification = sanctification. Justification can not be separated from sanctification. Then to drive home the point again, he gives an example of acting so immorally to cut one off from God. Committing sins of immorality against the body, such as fornication, is a sin against God (1 Cor. 6:15-18). He warns Christians against immorality. He's not talking about pagans who don't know Christ, but Christians. He just said if they have acts of immorality, they won't inherit the kingdom of heaven. Am I supposed to believe Paul or you?

Now, in reference to the idea that Jesus bore our punishment. Well, yes he suffered for us. No question. However, he did not become a sinner and God punish him for that. He was a sacrificial offering whose purpose was to cleanse us from sin and its bondage. He did not become imputed with our sin, and we got his righteousness. Nowhere in the Bible is that taught. He cleansed us, but we need his grace to pursue holiness without which no one will see the Lord (Heb. 12:14)

You claim that our theology would make it so we would not die? It is backward. Of course we are mortal human beings and we die, even if we can live righteously. That is a consequence of Adam‘s sin. We die. We acknowledge that. You are the one who claims that you get a perfect imputed righteousness. If that was the case, then one should not have to physically die.

You said Jesus can not lie, and he guarantees eternal life. Well, for those who stay in his grace, there is a guarantee. We have free will, though to run away from that gift he gives us. Well, indeed Jesus can not lie, and he says the following:

Mark 9:43-45 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Jesus uses hyperbole to bring home the point that if we fall into serious sin says we can go to hell. Now, when he speaks of having eternal life, it is not something where we don’t play a part in it. In fact we do play a part in it. If we turn away from him, we lose that justification. Jesus himself says so:
Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
On the sermon on the Mount, in Matthew 5, speaking to apostles and believers, he says, Mt. 5:22:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
BTW, do you have anybody in the first 15 centuries of Christianity that believed that one can not commit a sin that can lose salvation. Author and quote and context please. Or were the 1st century, 2nd century, 3rd Century, 4th century followers of Christ who gave up their lives for Christ (and all Christian believers through 15 centuries who believed that they could lose their salvation) all believers in a warped theology? BTW, can you give me how your view of salvation fits Jesus' description who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, and the grounds being works or not works in Mt. 25:31-46, fit your theology?

To all Visitors, Grace of Christ to You

©2003, "Can One Lose Salvation? An Exchange Using the King James Version", Part 1, written by Matt1618. This text may be downloaded or printed out for private reading, but it may not be uploaded to another Internet site or published, electronically or otherwise, without express written permission from the author.

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Changes last made on December 20, 2003.